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Re: Echo: A Native man's comments

Posted By: MACK!
Date: SUN, 10/19/03, 2:11 a.m.

In Response To: Echo: A Native man's comments (Smokinghawk)

Dear Smokinghawk,

It is a delight to hear from you. Thank you for reading my stories and for your kind words and encouraging feedback. I can’t tell you how much it means to me that you appreciate the work, and that you said the art looks the way you “feel”. That is about the best response I could ask for from someone with your personal knowledge and experience.

I’m glad that you appreciate my efforts.
I appreciate the questions that you asked and I am happy to answer them. I don’t at all mind you asking these things. I’d like you to know that I have carefully considered the points you mentioned ahead of time and would be happy to share with you the reasoning behind my approach.

I’d be happy to hear what you think about my responses. I don’t want to sound like a “know-it-all” either and I will be happy to defer to your knowledge. But I want you to know that thought and consideration went into these choices for various reasons, and I will be happy to hear your advice about if my reasoning is valid or flawed. I’ll list your questions one by one below:

-1)“What is Echo's tribal heritage again? I had thought it was Cherokee. “

Before I go on, I want to make sure you read the Echo Part 3 issue. It is in Daredevil # 52 in which her father describes her heritage. I will list that portion of the script here in case you missed that issue:

DD #53: PAGE 14

1 FATHER CAPTIONS- In 1832, Jackson, the guy on the twenty dollar money, signed an autograph to remove the native tribes.

2 CAPTION-It was then that my Grandfather's tribe and many other tribes, the
Chickasaws, Choctaws, Cherokee, Muskogee... They were called the Creek Indians, but
that is only because they lived by the Creek and people called them that.

3 CAPTION-They are really the Muskogee Nation. So them and many more nations.
They were all rounded up and made to walk all the way to what the government called
"Indian Territory". Later they called this territory Oklahoma. That's a Choctaw word
that means "red man's land".

4 CAPTIONS- There was no choice in the moving. All the tribes were forced to leave their homeland. Those people walked the entire distance, from sunup to sun down, herded along by soldiers on horseback.

5 CAPTION- Not everyone was strong enough to make the trip. In fact most of our people died on the way. And the rest were not allowed to give them a proper burial.

6 CAPTION- That is why it is called the trail of tears.

PAGE 15

1 FATHER Balloon-The children were taken from their parents and forced to go to boarding schools. They were not allowed to speak their native tongues. They were not allowed to tell their own stories. So my grandfather had to remember all of the stories.

2 Balloon-My grandfather lost all of his family from his own tribe. But he married someone from another tribe that he met in the new territory and they had my mother.
He told all of his stories to my mother.

3 Balloon- But soon my mother lost all of her family. So she married someone from another tribe and they had me. And they told all of their stories to me.

4 Balloon- And then I came all the way here to the city and I met someone not in any of those tribes.

5 Balloon- And now I have you. And I tell all of my stories to you.

6 Balloon- All of that traveling and joining parents and grandparents has made you.

7 Balloon- You are the future of all of their stories.

8 Balloon- It's good that you don't hear in words or think only in words.

9 Balloon- This way you don't hear only lies. You see by actions what the truth is. And
you tell your own truth by actions.

---Instead of making Echo of one specific tribe, I wanted to show that she was a product of many nations. And many joinings and in her burns the spirit of many stories beyond one ethnic classification. I wanted to keep her heritage inclusive rather than exclusive. I wanted her to be appreciative of all the heritages and stories that she is made up of and I wanted her to think of herself as a character that goes beyond boundaries and borders (this is clarified in the fifth issue of the story). Metaphorically, I thought people could relate to her this way and appreciate their own diverse backgrounds joining together in the past to make them what they are today.
I wanted her to look at the stories as a unifying mythology rather than a divisive one. I think this will be more clear at the end of the story where the point is that her role in life is one that can transcend divisions.

2)-“ One criticism I have of so much Indian affecionado commentary by non-Indians is that it uses Sioux cosmology/ceremony as the ubiquitous reference-point. EVERYBODY who uses Indian traditionalism seems to use some version of Lakota background, no matter what the ostensible tribe.”

-Hopefully it is obvious that “The Chief” (firefighter or editor, now retired) is Sioux. That is why everything that he says is in Sioux based cosmology, and he is helping Echo in the best way he knows how, which entails his use of the Sioux language and customs. And she is appreciative of his customs as well.

3)- “"shaman" (ouch! That word makes me cringe a little; it's a Siberian term often eschewed by Indian traditional people since it's also a favorite with the "New Age" crowd)”

-I understand what you mean. It is a term bandied about and abused.
Are you familiar with the Ojibwa artist Norval Morisseau? I’m a big fan of his art work. His work deals with depicting stories in a way that he believes has a healing power through the story and the art. And he refers to himself with the term shaman. I’m attempting to use the role of the storyteller in this story in the same way, so I used the same term he uses for himself. And there are other Native storytellers that refer to themselves in this way so I tried to draw the parallel by using the same term.

These are just my reasoning behind using the terms and customs that you mentioned. I hope they are valid to you in this context. I am, of course, always open to hearing advice from someone who knows better than I do.

I am happy to hear that you are an artist. I would love to hear about your approach to your work. Or perhaps a link to a website of your work if there is one?
I have an uncle who is Cherokee and when I was little he would tell me his stories and have me draw some of his cultural images to go with his descriptions. It made an impression on me, and this story is a chance for me to explore the role of artists and storytellers in Native culture but also in current conventional popular culture. The idea is that stories and art can unify beyond language, cultures, and handicaps. Even the deaf can learn to see the sign language of the divine. Which is of course just a literary metaphor for all of us.

Thanks so much for support and the kind words!

Warmest regards,
David Mack

: Being a Native artist myself (Ojibway and Sioux) who can
: speak my language, knows my songs and history, and
: even grew up both on and off tribal territories, I'd
: like to make a few comments about Mack's work on
: Daredevil, and especially the Echo character.

: In a word, ASTONISHING. (in the good way!) The artwork is
: simply breathtaking (I've taken copies of the comic
: off the spinner racks at the local Borders Books and
: laid them, open, in the racks of the current art
: periodicals to catch passers-by). The tender contrasts
: of fragile feathered textures and confident pencil
: strokes, laid against the winter-hide-tale painted
: backgrounds makes every page simply a stunning
: encapsulation of what I "feel" like, myself
: (all that's missing is the contemporary urban reality
: as well; one criticism might be that like so much
: "Indian art" these days, the images
: consistently hearken back to eagles, wolves, feathers,
: beads and "shamans").

: A couple of comments about things I find either
: distracting, or worth asking a question about: What is
: Echo's tribal heritage again? I had thought it was
: Cherokee. One criticism I have of so much Indian
: affecionado commentary by non-Indians is that it uses
: Sioux cosmology/ceremony as the ubiquitous
: reference-point. EVERYBODY who uses Indian
: traditionalism seems to use some version of Lakota
: background, no matter what the ostensible tribe. Echo
: goes back to "the rez" and meets a
: "shaman" (ouch! That word makes me cringe a
: little; it's a Siberian term often eschewed by Indian
: traditional people since it's also a favorite with the
: "New Age" crowd), whose form is taken right
: from a Curtis photo of Plains elders. He immediately
: ushers Echo into a tipi and begins to explain our
: inipi rites, and then conducts her vision quest (a
: Hanblecyia)--all thoroughly Sioux. Why not have Echo
: return to the Cherokee more authentically?

: Despite that minor comment, I have no intention of
: responding as a "know-it-all" out to
: "set Mack straight;" on the contrary, I'd
: like to praise him for being so classy and so genuine
: in his storytelling. He makes a real effort to get it
: right, and comes as close as I've ever seen from a
: non-Indian storyteller. I can forgive the cliche use
: of yet-more-Sioux-stuff to sell a claimed Cherokee
: character, because Mack treats his characters and
: readers with such respect. Despite the tribal
: affiliation "flub," at least Mack's
: researched the rites and common "teachable
: emblems" of those rites.

: I can even forgive the incessant triangles on every
: page...heh heh!

: Seriously, David, I'd be interested in knowing what your
: genuine request is for purchase of an original piece
: from this story--and whether they are even for sale.

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Messages In This Thread

  • NEW! Echo: A Native man's comments -- Smokinghawk -- SAT, 10/18/03, 11:16 p.m.
    • NEW! Re: Echo: A Native man's comments -- MACK! -- SUN, 10/19/03, 2:11 a.m.
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